
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOV-CNE2.DOC -- 19980302 -- Email thread on NetWare and CNE certification
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	Feel free to add or edit this document and then email
	it back to faq@jelyon.com




Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 12:08:50 -0800
From: Debbie Crowley <debmc@DELTANET.COM>
Subject: CNE 4.1 Track

>I am currently completing a CNE 3.1x track Hvae 2 more tests!) and I
>have discovered that I need only write "Install & Config" and "Design &
>Implimentation" to get a CNE 4.1 track as well. My question is this, all
>of the sample test material I have downloaded does not include sample D&I
>tests, nor does my CNE study guide cover it. Where can I get sample tests
>and study material for this module( other than the obvious $$ student kit)?
>Does New Riders or Novell Press have books out to cover this and some of
>the other optional modules?

There is a new Novell Press book out called "CNE-4 Study Guide"
ISBN 0-7821-1754-6.  The book comes with a CD which contains tools to help
you study for the CNE-4 Tests:
  1. Micro House Technical Library Encyclopedia of I/O Cardes (complete)
  2. The Micro House Technical Library Encyclopedia demo version
  3. The Novell Education Certification Sampler
  4. The complete 801 Self Test from Big REd Self Test.
The book covers the entire CNE 4 track, including "Install & Config" and
"Design & Implimentation".

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 12:03:18 -0600
From: David Kobbervig <DKOBBERV@MAIL.STATE.WI.US>
Subject: Re: CNE benefits

>What I want to know is, WHAT are the published benefits (from Novell)
>upon becoming a:
>	CNE-4
>	MCNE
>	ECNE
>	CNE-3
>	 etc
>
>They sent me this garbage...app notes from 1993.
>WHAT are the benefits ?

I just took this off of Novell's web site...



When you become a CNE, you will receive the following benefits:

Industry Recognition. CNEs are recognized throughout the network
computing industry as support professionals.  NetWare customers who
use your services can feel confident that the support you provide
is based on your tested, Novell-certified knowledge.

Technical Support.CNEs receive priority attention from Novell Technical
Support (NTS), including two free support "incidents," which are
good for one year from the date you attain certification, and a
50-percent discount on all support incidents you purchase. An
incident is the identification, follow-up, and resolution of a
problem. NTS is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Incidents are non-transferable and may not be sold.

CNEs receive a free issue of the Network Support Encyclopedia (NSE)
Professional Volume. The NSE is an electonic information base
containing technical information needed for installing,
maintaining and troubleshooting a network. The NSE includes technical
bulletins and manuals; downloadable patches, fixes, drivers and
enhancements; and technical notes from other hardware and
software vendors. As a CNE, you can purchase a discounted
annual subscription to the NSE.

Use of the CNE Logo. When you gain CNE status, you can use the CNE logo
in advertisements or your business literature to let your customers
know you are a Novell-certified service provider.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 20:15:22 -0500
From: Debbie Becker <dbecker@clark.net>
Subject: Re: CNE

Brad Clark wrote:
>  I am 16 and I have already taken Networking Tech, Netware 4.x admin and
>Netware 4.x Adv.admin.I passed the Net Tech class with a 599 and have not
>taken
>either on of the Net Admin test.Can someone please tell what the test are
>basically composed of and how hard they are.

The 4.x tests are currently about 65-75 questions and you have 1-1/2 hours to
finish. Somewhere around 6-12 of the questions will be "performance-based" --
in other words, you'll be shown a scenario, given a task (like "create user
SusanB in .CORP.ACME"), and then NWAdmin will load so you can complete the
task. You might get another question or two using exhibits (multiple windows
showing various layouts). The rest will be multiple choice.

The performance-based testing seems to be working well toward making sure
that folks can actually perform the tasks (not just describe them).

How hard are they? Depends...   I have a number of students who have passed
both on the first try with no problem. Others have run into detailed
questions they weren't expecting and failed the first time. A lot has to do
with having a feel for how Novell tests (i.e., what's a Novell-type
question)!!

Recommendation -- study the student guide; study the red books in areas
referenced in the student guide (pay attention to command line utility
switches, parameters, etc.); invest in one of the study aids -- Big Red has
been mentioned frequently. I've also used (with great success) the Flash
Cards. I like them because they make me type in the answer -- no multiple
choice -- and let me re-test on errors. By the time I've finished answering
the same question four or five times I usually have a pretty good handle on
it!

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 15:41:00 -0700
From: "Richard K. Acquistapace" <acquista@NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: CNE & incidents

>If a person becomes a cne-3 in January and cne-4 in March, do
>they get 2 incidents per cne = 4 ?

Once you become a CNE or Master CNE, you get 2 trouble calls for the
first year.  After that, you pay with a CNE discount.

------------------------------

Date:	Sun, 30 Jun 1996 11:44:49 -0400
From:	RBall84213@aol.com (Rich Ballard)
Subject: Re: Taking CNA test - NEED HELP

>I am taking the Novell Netware 3.x Administration CNA test.  Is there a
>place on the Internet where I can download sample questions from.  I need
>to get some practice on how they ask questions, since that is almost as
>important as the answer.

You can download the Big Red Self Test sampler from
     http://education.novell.com/testinfo/test.htm

You can download the CNEquizzr sampler (file monster.exe) from
     http://www.certify.com

Download both and determine which one you prefer.  My preference
is the CNEquizzr tests.  They are more difficult than the Big Red
Self Tests, and seem more representative of the actual qualifying test
questions.  Caveat emptor.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 01:29:40 -0700
From: Randy Grein <rgrein@halcyon.com>
To: "NetWare 4 list" <netw4-l@bgu.edu>
Subject: Re: Novell Internet Certificate

>Does anyone know about an "Internet Track" that may be a special track
>similar to the Groupwise Track?  Are these two tracks actual CNE possi-
>bilities (as opposed to CNE3 or CNE4)?

The internet track is a new specialty. It's so new I'm not certain of the
specifics, but I believe that it's not a standalone certificate, but
rather an addon to the standard CNE. It requires some basics, then the
TCP/IP class, basic and advanced web admin, and a class in HTML coding.

[Floyd: check out  http://education.novell.com]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 19:54:32 -0400
From: Randy Hochstetler <rhoch001@bright.net>
To: netw4-l@bgu.edu
Subject: certification

I have seen some individuals at this site make CNE certification
sound as if it is a matter of picking up a book, memorizing some facts, and
taking and passing some exams. Real simple, right!? Wrong! I think the day
of a Novell "paper CNE" is coming to an end. Novell has taken and is taking
measures to make the exams more performance oriented and less fact oriented.
This is especially true with the new adaptive exams. You get a lot of
questions of the type "This is the screen, what do you do next?" or "This is
the screen, what is wrong with this?" and "Click on the appropriate place on
the screen to do this". In addition, I challenge anyone to take the Novell
740 exam just by studying. Of all the exams I have taken for my
certifications, the Novell 740 exam was the toughest. And I heard the
Microsoft exams were the tougher than the Novell exams. I believed that
until I took the 740 exam. My point is I would not write off the
certification process as simply picking up a book and studying. IMHO, that
is far from the truth.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Oct 1996 21:29:06 +0100
From: "Arthur B." <arthur-b@zeelandnet.nl>
To: <netw4-l@bgu.edu>
Subject: Re: certification

Hope the new CNE exams are not about knowing your screens.
IMHO such an exam is a perfect exam for a helpdesk operator.
Somebody that must be able to visualize all screens that a user
might see and know the proper action to take.

If a CNE is someone that can make a difference in installing,
combining and tuning servers/LANs/WANs they should be tested
on that skill mostly. And not by multiple choice either!
Open questions only. Including interviewing managers and users.
Maybe even do a testcase study and report about that.

Do you really think anyone in this world will protest if a took a wrong
turn
in some menu for 7 seconds? All the action that is required is ESCaping
back and try the next menu option at worse.

And if knowing the right menu option is the one and only way to be a
real CNE why stick to Novell menu's only?
Surely in that case you must know several other menus also to do
your work.

Same goes for error messages.
I only need to be able to look the error message up and understand the
words used in the explanation. So I know where to look for next.

If beeing CNE is all about beeing a huge "if this then that" library I
rather
fill my grey cells with more usefull skills.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 19:23:01 -0400
From: "Brian Talbert" <WBrianT@aol.com>
To: netw4-l@bgu.edu
Subject: Re: certification

>If beeing CNE is all about beeing a huge "if this then that" library I
>rather fill my grey cells with more usefull skills.

I've taken many Novell test...starting serveral years ago with 3.x Admin,
Advanced Admin, and Net Tech.   I've recently been taking all of the tests
for a 4.x CNE, including retaking the current Net Tech.  (Just have Service
and Support left..)

There had definately been some improvements to the testing methods.  While
most of the questions are still multiple choice, there are many that are now
"scenario" based and indeed even true "hands-on".   The NWAdmin questions
aren't merely asking what appears on an individual screen...or what button to
press...or "if this then that".  Rather, you are given a task...create users,
set rights, etc.  You are then able to use an NWAdmin simulator to complete
the task.  Most functions work (HELP doesn't...I tried just for the heck of
it <g>).  You do whatever you need to accomplish the goal...when finished you
press a "DONE" button and your results are graded...not HOW you got the
results...just the results.

The way in which the multiple choice questions are given has changed as well.
I can remember many multiple choice questions in the old exams that have
several correct answers.  In this case it was always clearly stated how many
responses were expected.  The recent tests don't give you that same
indication.

With all of that said...I still think there is plenty of room for
improvement.  I would like the tests to be even more "hands-on"... including
more simulations,  standardized multiple choice responses (allow ALL
questions to have multiple responses, include "none of the above" and "all of
the above" on every question, etc.), and perhaps even make them more
difficult.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 23:48:34 +0100
From: "Arthur B." <arthur-b@zeelandnet.nl>
To: <netw4-l@bgu.edu>
Subject: Re: certification

Still think that the title CNE should be more then knowing how to
install rights and new users.

Myself I'm thinking more in the direction of Tree Design, router
design, boosting performance, security, managing mayor changes in the
orginal networkdesign, advicing, troubleshooting, etc.

As long as operational questions are asked at the CNE exam I think such an
exam
is aiming below what a CNE should be.

Let us not forget that the "E" stands for "Engineer" not for
"Administration".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 10:37:01 -0500
From: WBrianT@aol.com
To: netw4-l@bgu.edu
Subject: Re: certification

>Myself I'm thinking more in the direction of Tree Design, router
>design, boosting performance, security, managing mayor changes in the
>orginal networkdesign, advicing, troubleshooting, etc.

Tree Design certainly is covered in the Design and Implementation course...
performance issues are covered across several courses, as is security and
troubleshooting.  There is only so much ground that can be covered...when it
comes right down to it...you can change the curriculum as much as you want
and it still won't replace a variety of real-world hands-on experience.

>As long as operational questions are asked at the CNE exam I think such an
>exam is aiming below what a CNE should be.

No operational questions?  A knowledge of the operation of NetWare is
precisely what the CNE is intended to provide...this is exactly what should
be tested.

>Let us not forget that the "E" stands for "Engineer" not for
>"Administration".

And let us also not forget that the "N" stands for NetWare...not network.
This is not a general knowledge certification... it is a PRODUCT
certification.  And in many states the "E" doesn't stand for Engineer for
the same reason garbage people aren't called sanitation "engineers".

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 21:36:04 -0600
From: "Mike Avery" <mavery@pernet.net>
To: netw4-l@bgu.edu
Subject: Re: certification

>>There is only so much ground that can be covered...when  it
>>comes right down to it...you can change the curriculum as much as you want
>>and it still won't replace a variety of real-world hands-on experience.
>
>Indeed exams are only a indication on how someone will perform in the
>real world. I just feel that the exam should try to match as much of the
>most  likely real world the examed person will do his work in later.
>
>Maybe Novell just has trouble designing an exam to test that?

Hard to imagine why that would be the case.  All the CNE's I know
seem to do much the same thing, day in, day out, and it hasn't
changed in years.  (Satire mode: Off)

Seriously, look around here and on the other NetWare forums you might
subscribe to.  Look at the people who seem to know it all, have the
right answer for so many questions.  And then look at the questions
they ask... that leave you scratching your head and asking, "This is
a NetGod?  EVERYONE knows THAT!"  There is a lot to know, and there
is a lot of diversity in what people do.  Lots of tests I took pretty
much assumed an Ethernet environment.  I was a CNE for 7 years before
I saw my first Ethernet LAN.  All Token ring, WaveLAN, and other odds
and ends until then.  Did that mean I was incompetent?  Well, my
employer didn't think so, and the folks who hired me into the
Ethernet environment seemed pretty sad when I decided to move on to
greener pastures.

I know I'd be hard pressed to define a central set of skills and be
able to say, "This is the essential core of knowledge a CNE must
have".  Or even a network manager or adminisitrator.  If I were
hiring people, I'd base the hiring decision on skills and resume more
than certification.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Oct 96 15:40:53 EST
From: DBurkey@ck6.uscourts.gov
To: netw4-l@bgu.edu
Subject: Re[2]: certification

>And let us also not forget that the "N" stands for NetWare...not network.
>This is not a general knowledge certification... it is a PRODUCT
>certification.  And in many states the "E" doesn't stand for Engineer for
>the same reason garbage people aren't called sanitation "engineers".

First "N" does NOT any longer stand for NetWare.
Novell changed that "N" to stand for Novell when they added
the Wordperfect/Groupwise programs to the already existing NetWare and
UnixWare program(s). (Unless I missed them changing it back
after they realized what a mistake that (acquisitions) was.

Second ... I don't want to sound like your grandfather who walked
to and from school uphill, both ways... but,
when Novell created the CNE the last requirement after the tests
was signing by customer of the engineer (candidate) certifying that
certain Novell products had been installed. Novell should reinstate
this last requirement. If they checked the information against the
database of registered copies and/or called the end users (which they
did to at least one of mine then) this would be a valid check on
the experience of the candidate.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 20:18:56 -0800
From: Richard Boren <training@interpath.com>
To: netw4-l@bgu.edu
Subject: Training

Hello Newt4-l subscribers. I want to inform all of you that The Training
Registry now has a separate category for listings of Novell training course
offerings by a variety of training providers. This includes a huge variety
of Netware courses, certification courses, groupwise, etc.  Please remember,
I don't provide this training (this is not an advertisement for my training
services). I only list the training courses and the training providers who
offer them. I think you will find the registry to be useful in locating
NetWare training and Netware trainers, as well as a huge variety of other
topics. My own purpose is simply to provide people with a quick and easy
mechanism for finding training.

You will find The Training Registry at:

	http://www.tregistry.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:19:10 -0700
From: Shawn <opeth@FUTUREONE.COM>
Subject: Re: CNE guide

>Tools that I have:
>1) Certification Sampler v5.5 - BIG RED

Get the full version of Big Red.

>3) Clarke Test v2.0

I didn't find the Clarke Tests as useful as Big Red and CNEQuizr

>4) CNEQUIZr - unregistered version

Get the full version.

>5) NSEPro - Sep 96

This isn't really necessary to study for your exams (except maybe Service
and Support), but will be handy in the real world.

---------

Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 10:44:01 -0700
From: Hansang Bae <hbae@PRIMENET.COM>
Subject: Re: CNE guide

>I am currently pursuing CNE course in Singapore. I am looking for tools to
>prepare for the tests. Any information on tools that are available would be
>greatly appreciated!
>Tools that I have:
>1) Certification Sampler v5.5 - BIG RED
>2) Novell CNE Study Guide for Netware 4.1 by David James Clarke, IV
>3) Clarke Test v2.0
>4) CNEQUIZr - unregistered version
>5) NSEPro - Sep 96

A GLARING omission (I hope it was an oversight on your part) is a
working test server.  You can't do this stuff right w/o experience.

And by all means, read the LIST's FAQ and keep reading
comp.os.netware.connectivity & misc & security as welll as subscribing
to this list.

PS I was not that impressed w/ CNEQuizer or any other quizzer type
programs.  I've not used it in depth, but am helping a friend study.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 06:59:16 -0500
From: Hoo Kok Mun <hkmun@PACIFIC.NET.SG>
Subject: CNE Guide.

>A friend of mine and I want to purchase self guided study guides for the
>Netware 4.x CNE exams.  We want book(s) that will do the best job
>of preparing us for Novell's exams without the benefit of classroom
>instruction.  Any recommendations?

This one is pretty good. It has a CD-ROM consists of NSEPRO, Clark Test
2.0, DS Standard.

CNE Study Guide for Netware 4.1 by David James Clarke, IV
ISBN 1-56884-734-3 (1700pages - US$89.99)

Which track are you taking? 4.1 or 4.11? There is a new version(v4.11) for
the above.

The book covers course 520,525,526,532,804.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:25:26 -0500
From: Kevin McIntosh <powertek@hia.net>
To: <netw4-l@ecnet.net>
Subject: RE: CNE guide

Try http://www.lantell.com and http://www.stsware.com.  These are
pretty much the only training material sources that I use for Novell
and Microsoft training.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 15:06:57 -0400
From: "Brien K. Meehan" <MEEHANB@DETROITEDISON.COM>
Subject: Re: Netwire, Worldwire, NSEPro, MTL

>Sorry to bother the list with this question, but I have been
>searching for access on line to Netwire, Worldwire, NSEPro and MTL, and I
>understand that familarity is needed for the CNE Service and Support test
>which I am currently studing for.
>1) Do any of you find these sources valuable?
>2) Can they be accessed over the internet?

Worldwire?!?  What's that supposed to be?

Netwire is a Compuserve forum.  I haven't been there for about 2 years.  I
don't remember anything being there that isn't more easily accessable through
www.novell.com.

The Network Support Encyclopedia (NSEPro) is a CD-ROM subscription, and is
EXTREMEMLY helpful if you're a field engineer, and don't have reliable
high-speed dial-out capabilities you can take around with you - but generally,
if you have access to a CD-ROM, you have access to a modem, and can get to
support.novell.com for most of the same information.

MicroHouse Technical Library (MTL) is also a CD-ROM subscription, and is also
EXTREMELY valuable in the field, or if you are a technician for a company that
doesn't encourage standards for computing devices (i.e. where anyone can buy
anything).

Working demo copies of NSEPro and MTL are usually handed out free with
training programs, and better self-study materials.  Compuserve sends
membership kits with 10 free hours in the mail, on 2 floppies.  If you can't
find a membership set, ask them for one.

>Please email me directly to reduce static on THE list.

3 reasons I won't:  1) This is good information for several aspiring
CNE's; 2) Direct replies tend to discourage discussion, and turn this into
a "help me" forum - I'm sure you don't intend to do that; and 3) If you're
entering the support field, you need to learn that there are no "givens."
For example, it's not a "given" that, for the 3500 participants of this
list, all the "From:" fields for your post contain your e-mail address,
and not the string "owner-novell@listserv.syr.edu."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 06:54:09 -0800
From: "Robert G. Gourley" <GOURLEYR@FRL.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: CNA Sample Tests

On 25 Apr 97 at 22:34, Stuart R. Crawford wrote:

> I am looking for sample tests for the CNA/CNE certification.

Check out http://education.novell.com/theguide

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 08:47:29 +0200
From: Mike Glassman - Admin <admin@IAA.GOV.IL>
Subject: Is this possible ?

Regretfully it is possible, and not only that, it is possible to
take the course manual home and study it and pass the exam with flying
colors.

One of the major problems encountered these days in the market from my
point of view, is that at least 35% of all CNE's and MCNE's are what are
termed "paper CNE's or MCNE's". The term specifies someone who has done
"the manual" without doing the course, passed the exam and has
absolutely no idea of what is going on.

This does not mean everyone is a paper..., but it does show you that
what your training center says is true.

In the end, it is obvious in minutes if not seconds to an employer (if
they have a little tech or netware knowledge) who is serious and who
isn't, again the problem here is that most employers have absolutely no
idea what it is they want other then having learnt that if the person is
a CNA, CNE or MCNE then that's what they need, without understanding
what it means to be one of those.

Anyone can become anything if they are able to fool enough people most
of the time.

To finish off, you can take the book, study hard for 3 days and pass the
exam without your course...

Good luck in your new field :))

Mike Glassman
(CNA, CNE and multiCNI)

---------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:57:25 +0200
From: Mike Glassman - Admin <admin@IAA.GOV.IL>
Subject: Re: Is this possible ?

>Thanks Mike,
>
>Any particular book you would recommend ?

There are a multitude of books about for the course, but you must
remember than Novell states and follows a simple rule.

The exams are based solely on the material received as part of the said
course. Novell guarantees that the exams will fit the course schedule up
to 6 weeks after the course. Novell is not responsible for any changes
made after that period nor is she responsible for any material studied
in other books or manuals that the exam covers but were not in those
books.

In affect, the exams are usually not changed much over a much longer
period, but it's good to remember this, as It's been done before.

The best way, even if the more expensive way, is to do the course.

As far as books go, I'd suggest some books on IW which don't have
anything to do with courses or study guides, QUE has a very good set out
as do some other companies. The idea here being to find the book that is
well written, covers all the topics you can imagine and a few more, and
yet does not cause you to fall asleep with unneeded tech garbage all
over.

---------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 10:41:45 -0500
From: "Jeffrey A. Tinch" <jtinch@FUSE.NET>
Subject: Re: Is this possible ?

>Would anyone say if it is possible for someone with no Novell experience at
>all to take a one week "CNA" 4.11 Intranetware course and then be able to
>pass the exam the following week.
>
>I am experienced with Pc's, Win95 and peer-peer but never with Novell. I
>didn't know if my training centre were just trying to sell a course or if
>this was achievable ?

I once work for a company that sent me to Dallas for a 5 Week NW 4.1
CNE class. This covered all class to get certified as CNE. In the class
was a young lady who had no computer experience, was an office person. She
study very intensely for all the course and passed most of the ones that I
know about by less than 5 points (CNA was one of them) I don't know if she
passed them all or not as I finished mine. Had another person who was a long
time OS/2 LAN Server Guru(?) who could not pass some of the test after 4
tries. Go figure. When you study, as the instructor always said, study the
bulleted items in the book -- they are test question material. Most of the
time they were on my test

---------

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 13:04:00 -0500
From: David Weaver <daw@DECT.COM>
Subject: Re: Is this possible ?

It seems as if you have prior knowledge of an OS you tend to be influenced
by it's rules.  In other words you get OS/2 lodged in your head and NW is a
totally different.  After taking all the CNE tests w/no experience aka paper
CNE, I was still lacking basic troubleshooting skills. If you are lucky
enough to work under someone who has lots of experience, learn as much as
you can.  As for the CNE course, very little, besides the core OS info is
useful to me.

------------------------------

From: Rizvi.Ari@ic.gc.ca (Rizvi, Ari: LAN 7th E)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 11:17:18 -0500
Subject: CNE

I just wrote the CNA for Intranetware 4.11. Here's my braindump. Maybe
someone will find it useful. Feel free to add it to the DOC.

This adaptive test consists of 15 to 25 questions.
As soon as I answered the 15th question, the test ended (I had scored
enough points).

Here is some of the subject matter:

(1) PERFORMANCE: Give users from multiple contexts, login-time restrictions
(user filters)

(2) PERFORMANCE: Configure an Application Object for Novell Application
Launcher (name the object, choose a path, add an association, update Notify
list., etc)

(3) PERFORMANCE: Give file system rights to groups

(4) at least 2 or 3 questions on Object Naming (e.g Distinguished, Relative
Distinguished, etc). You're given a graphic to work with

(5) theory on NDS .. e.g what are 2 advantages of NDS , what are the
differences between NDS and the File System

(6) printing .. what are the critical properties of a print queue

(7) command line utilities .. syntax, parameters, how to get help, etc.

NOTE: Be prepared to tag Multiple Objects in Mulitiple Contexts

I found  Big Red Tests useful for theory. For the Performance questions,
it's best to practice with NW Administrator.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:39:35 +0200
From: Mike Glassman - Admin <admin@IAA.GOV.IL>
Subject: CNE, CNI, MCNE info

For those of you going thru or thinking of going thru or upgrading your
certifications in the field, the following two URL's offer alternatives
to the standard course atendance method.

http://www.flashcards.com/

http://www.bfq.com/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:28:32 -0600
From: Darren Rogers <emaildj@MINDLESS.COM>
Subject: Re: CNE pay scale

>>>Anyone know what the pay scale is for entry level CNEs?  I will be
>>>completing my CNE in the next week or so, and do not know what to
>>>be asking for in pay.
>>
>>Lots of jobs in minneapolis  ( if you can handle the weather!!!!)
>>
>>If you are CNE AND MCSE AND know your stuff with some experience, any
>>TEMP company will hire for $15-$20+  per hour  in minneapolis, MN
>>
>>as to guidelines for permanent hires
>>
>> 40K+   easily
>> 50k+   now we need to talk about experience
>> 60K++  you need to be good at this level, with a strong background
>>        or plain old luck

Come on out to California....  $60k jobs are pretty common, and most
intelligent HR / IS hiring staff realize that three letters can't give you
the skills to do a job.  I have found that most of the places I've looked
out here that require certification (ie CNA, CNE, MSCE) aren't places you'd
want to work in the long run, because often the people making decisions
don't understand IS, or IS staffing.

---------

Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:40:00 PST
From: "harrington, dana" <harrinda@MI.CC.MN.US>
Subject: Re: CNE pay scale

DJ, I agree with you 100%

The certifications get noted when I see a resume and do help a bit, but,
problem resolution abilities and a background in logical thinking and
problem isolation are the key components for entry hires at my site.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:14:49 -0600
From: Dan Alexander <dalex@FLOWERSHOSPITAL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pay Shmay !

For new folks, and people who haven't been keeping a finger on the pulse
of the job market some good places to start are

	http://www.realrates.com
or
	news:misc.jobs.*
and
	news:comp.jobs.*

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