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NOVEMAIL.DOC -- 19980318 -- Email thread on NetWare and Electronic Mail
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Date: Sat, 29 Mar 1997 13:28:42 -0600
From: "Mike Avery" <mavery@mail.otherwhen.com>
To: netw4-l@ecnet.net
Subject: Re: Internet e-mail server

>I'm on the process of setting up a web and e-mail server for
>internet access with dedicated line. I plan to use Intranetware, and
>hook this server onto existing Novell LAN with 100 users.
>
>So far we are using cc:Mail for internal messaging and Eudora for
>internet with dial-up connexion, TCP/IP is not used, and 90% of the
>workstation run in a win95 environment, using Novel client32.
>
>What are the software that can be used onto Novell server for e-mail
>routing from and to the 'internet world'.

I'd suggest that you move towards a single e-mail package, as
supporting and using two is a major problem.  Here are some of your
options at this point:

get a SMTP gateway for cc:mail and use cc:mail for everything.

get a pop3 server in house and use Eudora for everything.

switch to Pegasus for everything.

As to gateways, you can set up a Linux box to maintain a PPP link to
the internet and to act as a router.  It can run your pop3, web, and
ftp services with no problem while providing access for your users.
The software is essentially free.

If you want commercial software, you can move to BSDI's Internet
gateway or internet server products.

Personally, I'd avoid Puzzle systems.  The last time I looked at
them, they were too pricey and the software wasn't as mature as I'd
like.

Another option is to upgrade to IntraNetWare and use the provided MPR
to connect to the net, the included web and ftp servers to do that,
and to use Mercury as a mail server and pop3 host.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 10:18:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Gnalley@aol.com
To: netw4-l@ecnet.net
Subject: Re: PMail being NDS compliant...

>Pegasus is NDS compliant, and it handles MHS.  It has done so since
>it was first released, and it still does.

Pegasus NDS compliant? I believe you are pushing it. As a long time user
of Pegasus and all its related components, I would stongly disagree.
I would guess you are not running Pegasus in an NDS environment with
multiple NDS servers in the same OU, using the Pegasus for Macintosh
product, or changed sys volumes on your servers recently.

>However, the question that comes to my mind is do you NEED MHS, or do
>you just think you want it?  If you have dedicated connections, using
>the free Mercury SMTP mail gateway makes a lot more sense than MHS.
>MHS is a closed proprietary system that has a declining number of
>vendors.  SMTP is open and poises you to use the internet.

Totally open e-mail is not necessary a good thing from a security point of
view.  As a school which has students spoofing SMTP mail sending messages
to Deans and Principles, its very nice to be able to say "That message
came through the SMTP gateway and cannot be trusted like the internal
"non-standard" mail.

>I've used ancient versions of MHS (with Pegasus) and always disliked
>it.  I suggest avoiding it, unless there is an overwhelming reason to
>use it.

I would agree with this.

>And then, I'd look at Infinite Technologies Connect^2 series
>of products.  They resolve a number of MHS problems and are MHS
>compliant.

Very true, they do make good products.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 18:50:06 -0500
From: Bud Durland <ndurland@CAPITAL.NET>
Subject: Re: MS Outlook with Mercury/Novell ?

>Is anyone out there using MS Outlook as a mail client on a Novell
>net? We have always used Pegasus Mail / Mercury combo on our
>networks, but now our director wants to switch to MS Outlook. I
>have set it up to retrieve messages from mercury using POP3,
>but I'm worried about it. Is anyone else using this combination ?

Let me guess -- management has decided it's prettier than Pegasus,
right?

On my network, I have several users insisting on Outlook as the
internet e-mail client.  it seems to work OK, except that there is
no message filtering (everything goes only to the inbox), it can't
handle HTML formatted e-mail, and it's SLOW.  Occasionally, users
will complain of messages that don't get delivered/received.  Those
of us using Eudora or Netscape are not having that particular problem.

---------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:21:33 +0200
From: Mike Glassman - Admin <admin@IAA.GOV.IL>
Subject: Re: MS Outlook with Mercury/Novell ?

>Is anyone out there using MS Outlook as a mail client on a Novell net
>? We have always used Pegasus Mail / Mercury combo on our networks,
>but now our director wants to switch to MS Outlook. I have set it up
>to retrieve messages from mercury using POP3, but I'm worried about
>it. Is anyone else using this combination ?

We are using Outlook combined with Exchange to run our email/calendaring
etc services.

As far as email programs go, it's the same as Exchange ver 5 with a few
added perks, but is still a typical Microsoft email program.

A lot of features are missing, such as redirection of email, etc, but
the main problem in my eyes, is the fact that in order to share
calendars and schedules, everyone has to have their database on the
exchange server....so you can imagine how fast the database can grow.

In an added issue to this problem, the fact that Microsoft still keeps
all it's email and other data in one single file is a hassle to say the
least. And of course when it comes to backing the system up....If any
services connected with the Exchange server are running....no database
backup. Not to talk about what happens if a user loses his or her
data...

As an interface tho, or as a shared calendaring system, Outlook is
great. My users are very satisfied with it's performance (altho they do
complain about the slow startup time due to NT verification etc), and I
can't say I disagree with them. But in totality.....If there were some
other similar product out there that proved itself, I would look at it
very carefully.

It's my humble opinion that Microsoft has a good product here.....I just
wish they would get rid of that stupid single database idea, it really
doesn't work and it's a pain !!

---------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 09:26:47 +0200
From: Mike Glassman - Admin <admin@IAA.GOV.IL>
Subject: Re: MS Outlook with Mercury/Novell ?

>>Is anyone out there using MS Outlook as a mail client on a Novell
>>net? We have always used Pegasus Mail / Mercury combo on our
>>networks, but now our director wants to switch to MS Outlook. I
>>have set it up to retrieve messages from mercury using POP3,
>>but I'm worried about it. Is anyone else using this combination ?
>
>On my network, I have several users insisting on Outlook as the
>internet e-mail client.  it seems to work OK, except that there is
>no message filtering (everything goes only to the inbox), it can't
>handle HTML formatted e-mail, and it's SLOW.  Occaisionally, users
>will complain of messages that don't get delivered/received.  Those
>of us using Eudora or Netscape are not having any trouble with that
>particular problem.

I agree with you on most.....but not all your complaints.

Outlook does have message filtering, simply go to Tools/Inbox assistant
or Tools/Out of office assistant. It works just fine even if the options
for filtering are pathetically limited.

As far as not being able to receive HTML formated forms, that too is
incorrect to some extent. If you want it to be able to, simply tell it
to use Word as your default editor and it will accept them, otherwise it
won't.

As far as messages getting delivered/received, that too is strange and I
haven't had any such problems myself.

Again, if I had to choose what email program to use at home, or as a
direct email app, I would NEVER choose a Microsoft email prog, no matter
how pretty they made it.

[FLOYD: I STRONGLY AGREE WITH THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH]

---------

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 07:23:40 -0500
From: Bud Durland <ndurland@CAPITAL.NET>
Subject: Re: MS Outlook with Mercury/Novell ?

>Outlook does have message filtering...

You must know a trick that I do not.  On my installation of Outlook,
the Inbox Assistant is greyed out.  According to our MS support
contact, this only goes active when you are connected to an Exchange
Server.  Has MS come out with a patch of some sort?

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:43:37 +0000
From: Randy Richardson <randy@INTER-CORPORATE.COM>
Subject: Re: MS Mail on a 4.11 server

>>MS-MAIL\##
>>
>>Where MS-MAIL is the main Dir, ## is the dep # from 01 to 78. Each of
>>those ##'s defines a MS-MAIL post office.
>
>Do you have a mail server moving messages between the post offices?
>
>>To tell the truth tho, I can't wait to get rid of Ms-Mail and move
>>completely to Outlook and Exchange server. Ms-Mail is a pain to manage.
>
>Alas, we may also be installing NT/Exchange, because, in the words of my
>manager, GroupWise is "butt-ugly" compared to OutLook.  I'm just afraid
>that NT will be like Aesop's camel -- you start with just the node in the
>tent, but soon...

The great thing about GroupWise 5.2 is you can manage everything
centrally in NDS.  You don't need to maintain a second database of
users and passwords.  This saves your company a lot of valuable time
and money.

If your boss wants to use OutLook instead of GroupWise because he
thinks it's ugly, make sure he's aware of the advantages of using
GroupWise (here are just a few I can think of):
	1. POP3/SMTP/IMAP4 access (use any internet mail client)
	2. WebAccess (browser based mail client, really handy when
	   you're over seas and you only have access to Netscape
	   or some other browser)
	3. It integrates scheduling with the USRobotics Pilot
	4. It can call your pager

As far as using OutLook with GroupWise, it will work as an EMail
client, but not for scheduling.  In fact, OutLook is very proprietary
here.  See the following URL for more information on this:

	http://www.gwmag.com/html/microsoft.htm#outlook2

If you would like some more ammunitation for your case to select
GroupWise, take a look at the following URL:

	http://www.novell.com/groupwise/html/exchange.html

I've seen mention of a GroupWise agent that will disguise itself
as MS Exchange (to support OutLook) is in the works.  You should
check with Novell on this one to find out the details.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:05:02 +0100
From: "Arthur B." <arthur-b@ZEELANDNET.NL>
Subject: Re: Groupwise 5.2 and Outlook

>Hello I have a question about Groupwise, Can I use MS-Outlook as a
>Groupwise client?  I've configured the groupwise service in my
>Outlook profile but it canīt open the Groupwise folder and can't
>send or receive messages.

Please reconfigure your "Outlook Express" to stop sending e-mails in
MIME format. At least to public e-mail adresses like this listgroup.
At least half of this listgroup, if not more, is staring at pure HTML
code instead of noticing your manually typed-in text. Microsoft may
not like it but for many years to come "plain text" is more and
better supported worldwide then "MIME" will ever be.

To your question.
You can use Outlook to turn an unstable platform (like Win95) into a
timebomb. You don't need GroupWise add-ons for that. Outlook is very
capable of doing such deeds all on its own.
Meaning that, given time, the machine on which Outlook is installed
will require more and more nursing until it's decided to remove
Outlook (which will not help) and finally the harddisk is FDISK'ed
(which does help).

I'm not joking here. Over the last past months I've seen this
'solution' applied by not only myself but by other admins as well and
it was the only thing that stopped the Intensive Care nursing time.
Maybe due to nationalized DLL's. Which BTW are another world of hurt
on their own. Big thumbs up for Novell for inventing something like
MSG-files.

Also Microsoft web-related programs have one thing in common. They
all contain(ed?) security leaks without exception.

To top things of. Outlook consumes to many resources for such a
simple thing as processing e-mails. It simple isn't worth the trouble
it will give in return. Outlook isn't the most thankfull product
known to mankind. It's more like a spoiled brad. Enough isn't enough
and I want more.. more... more... and it' s mine... mine... mine...
And still not potty trained either.

---------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:24:14 -0800
From: Randy Richardson <randy@INTER-CORPORATE.COM>
Subject: Re: Groupwise 5.2 and Outlook

>I have a question about Groupwise, Can I use MS-Outlook as a Groupwise client?
>I've configured the groupwise service in my Outlook profile but It can't open
>the Groupwise folder and can't send o receive messages.  Is there any way to
>make this works?

There is a gateway, either available, or still being developed, that
allows GroupWise to service Notes and OutLook clients as well as
GroupWise clients (and all the others).

The following URL is the "GroupWise Cool Solutions" site:

	http://www.gwmag.com/

This site may already have the answer, and if not, ask them (I've
asked questions here before, and the answer came back in less than
2 days).

---------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:11:15 -0600
From: John Lyon <jelyon@MANATEE.WUSTL.EDU>
Subject: Re: Groupwise 5.2 and Outlook

One of my co-workers had Outlook accessing the GW message store. I'm not
sure how he did it, though.

I don't think he did anything special, but he did have to install GW on the
workstation (as GW installs some mapi stuff.) I thought it was GroupWise
mapi that allowed Outlook to access the message store.

---------

Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 19:42:33 -0800
From: Randy Richardson <randy@INTER-CORPORATE.COM>
Subject: Re: Groupwise 5.2 and Outlook

>One of my co-workers had Outlook accessing the GW message store. I'm not
>sure how he did it, though.
>
>I don't think he did anything special, but he did have to install GW on the
>workstation (as GW installs some mapi stuff.) I thought it was GroupWise
>mapi that allowed Outlook to access the message store.

He may have used OutLook as a POP3 client, and GWIA.NLM (GroupWise
Internet Agent).

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:24:47 -0800
From: Randy Richardson <randy@INTER-CORPORATE.COM>
Subject: Re: SMTP/POP3 servers for NetWare

>>GroupWise 5.2 GWIA doesn't support multiple internet domains
>>properly, so I'm looking at some third party possibilities.
>>
>>Can anyone recommend any POP3/SMTP servers for NetWare?  The search
>>engines don't come up with very many options, and Mercury requires a
>>fourth-party SMTP host.
>
>There are two:  Unoverica message server (http://www.unoverica.com, runs on
>3.12 or 4.11) or Novonyx Messaging Server (http://www.novonyx.com, runs on
>4.11 only).  Compared to groupwise, both have extremely low overhead and
>are faster than a speeding bullet.
>
>The Novonyx product is integrated with NDS -- a "novonyx messaging"
>button appears in NWADMIN.  You can also configure automatic
>forwarding and vacation messages for each user within NWADMIN. I
>have a client using the Unoverica product on their 3.12 server, and
>although it's a little more difficult to set up, it is also a good
>choice.  Unoverica has promised NDS integration any minute now.

I'm evaluating both of these products, and they are faster than the
GroupWise 5.2 GWIA.NLM, but they aren't giving everything I need:

- Unoverica:  No NDS management (I have to use RConsole), but it
will be available in an upcoming release.  If this release were out
now, I would have selected this product already since it meets all my
other criteria.  I really like this product.

- Novonyx:  Multiple Domains not working properly yet, but I've got
a call in to technical support (sort of) which I'm waiting for an
answer to.  I really like the way this product uses LDAP to determine
the user's EMail address(es).  See the following URL for a detailed
description of the problem I'm having (Novonyx online support):

	http://208.226.77.193/forum/messages/556.html

If you of any other products, I still have some time before a
decision has to be made.

---------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 04:49:50 +0100
From: Camaszotisz Gyorgy <cama@FREEMAIL.C3.HU>
Subject: Re: SMTP/POP3 servers for NetWare

>There are two: <snip>

And don't forget to mention Niagara Mail Server, entering this arena at
15th April this year. Also integrated with NWAdmin (several pages for
User, Group, own object for Mail Server, List, List Member), and
featuring a PMail gateway for those who are using Pegasus Mail without
TCP/IP stack on the client side. If you are interested in it, check for
the Beta3 on http://www.kerorg.hu/camasoft next week. (Current Beta2
doesn't have the listserv feature yet.)

---------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 00:25:12 -0600
From: Charles Edmonds <charles@ELKRIVERNET.COM>
Subject: Re: SMTP/POP3 for Netware and 400 kbps Internet Access

IPConnect from Puzzle Systems (www.puzzle.com) is a full featured SMTP/POP3 mail server that is fully NDS aware and has
virtually no maintenance at all (when you create NDS users, they automatically get a mail account - when you delete them, it
goes away).  The POP3 Reader also supports fetching mail from multiple domains or ISP mailboxes as needed.  The system works
with the SMTP gateway if  desired, or you can use the transport to allow users to get mail themselves.   In addition to
Groupwise, you could use ANY POP3 mail client (PC, Macintosh, or UNIX).

IPConnect is more than just  a mail server, It provides dial-on-demand Internet Connectivity for the entire network using a
single modem (analog or ISDN) and single ISP account.  It has  a firewall and does IP translation so you can use reserved IP
addresses on your internal network.  the product is VERY stable, reasonably priced, and easy to use.  We install it on EVERY
Novell Network we sell.

Another product to take note of by the same company  is "SatServ".  This is  a product that does not run on the Netware server
(it runs on a Windows 95 Workstation), but is fully compatible with Netware networks.  It uses the power of the Hughes
Networks Systems DirecPC Internet Satellite to deliver Internet content to your entire network at speeds up to 400 kbps!!!  It
includes the firewall and mail server and other features of IPConnect (although it is not NDS aware at this time), just at
Turbo Internet Speeds!
The cost of running SatServ and DirecPC are simple math.  Your Internet access will be four times the speed of ISDN and about
1/3 the cost!

Check out the Puzzle website for more information, or send email to "charles@elkrivernet.com" so that you don't clog the mail
list.

---------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 13:14:46 +0100
From: Schneck Axel <aschneck@DE.WANG.COM>
Subject: AW: SMTP/POP3 servers for NetWare

There is another GREAT one out from germany, called max.nlm!
Look at www.witland.com, download and have fun with it.
regards, Axel Schneck

---------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:01:31 -0800
From: Randy Richardson <randy@INTER-CORPORATE.COM>
Subject: Re: AW: SMTP/POP3 servers for NetWare

>There is another GREAT one out from germany, called max.nlm!
>Look at www.witland.com, download and have fun with it.
>regards, Axel Schneck

The site "http://www.witland.com/" seems to be down.  Could you
confirm that I have the right URL?

---------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:58:40 +0000
From: Richard Letts <r.j.letts@SALFORD.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: AW: SMTP/POP3 servers for NetWare

>>There is another GREAT one out from germany, called max.nlm!
>>Look at www.witland.com, download and have fun with it.
>
>The site "http://www.witland.com/" seems to be down.  Could you
>confirm that I have the right URL?

A quick search with altavista for max.nlm yields a page in Czech with
a link on it to a site in Germany...which has moved to...
	http://www.weitlandt.com/max.htm
for a page in English!

---------

Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:03:50 -0800
From: Randy Richardson <randy@INTER-CORPORATE.COM>
Subject: Re: SMTP/POP3 servers for NetWare - Niagara report

>>And don't forget to mention Niagara Mail Server, entering this arena at
>>15th April this year. Also integrated with NWAdmin (several pages for
>>User, Group, own object for Mail Server, List, List Member), and
>>featuring a PMail gateway for those who are using Pegasus Mail without
>>TCP/IP stack on the client side. If you are interested in it, check for
>>the Beta3 on http://www.kerorg.hu/camasoft next week. (Current Beta2
>>doesn't have the listserv feature yet.)
>
>I did forget, and I shouldn't have -- I evaluated the beta a couple of
>months ago, and it seemed like a pretty good product.  Does it address the
>problem with multiple domains?

I tried the evaulation, and here's what I think so far:

Pluses:
	- Multiple internet domain support (easy to configure)
	- Uses NDS and snap-ins for NetWare Administrator
	- Uses a separate password for users' EMail accounts
	- Trace screen for SMTP can be enabled
	- Trace screen for POP3 can be enabled
	- Disk space restrictions for EMail boxes
	- Doesn't use much RAM or CPU resources
	- EMail server logs in to NDS as its own object
	- Anti-SPAM features

Minuses:
	- Currently in beta (so some of these issues may be resolved)
	- Installation doesn't grant rights to Niagara directory
	- Can't use NDS password (ISPs need this)
	- Doesn't use LDAP EMail addresses

That's as far as I got.  I can't get the EMail server working
properly because, when I start the Niagara NLM, it reports that it
can't determine the IP address of the server.  This doesn't make any
sense to me because nothing else has this problem, and the one domain
I'm trying this with is entered in the HOSTS file, can be looked up
from the outside world, and all the patches (including those
recommended in the FAQ) have been applied.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:54:29 -0700
From: Joe Doupnik <JRD@CC.USU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Deleting Mail Directory?

>Can I blow away the mail directory on my 3.12 server without any
>adverse effects?  We are not using novell mail
--------
	No, do not remove sys:mail directories. Amongst other things they
hold user's login scripts for NW 3. Look in them to see.
	Joe D.

------------------------------

