Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 23:52 EET
From: Ross W Shaw <rwshaw@unixg.ubc.ca>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1101] Re: NAID

	I know a friend of mine is trying to get a group of people 
together in Alberta to head out for the democomp.  I'll have to miss it 
due to my work load.  I hope its a success and compares well or better 
(organization wise) to Assembly 94.


Ross Shaw                                      Fish and Parasites
Graduate Student                                Thats what I do.
Department of Zoology
University of British Columbia


-----------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 22:14 EET
From: Juwan <vecna@UMich.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1099] GUS

IS about $119 US good for a GUS?

                                   _   ___  _________
                                  | |  \ / |  _   _  |
                                __| |  | | | | | | | |
                               |____|  /_\ |_| |_| |_|


-----------------

Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 23:47 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <enrico@max.tiac.net>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1100] Re: NAID



On Sat, 21 Jan 1995, Paul Kalupnieks wrote:

> 
>     So who here's going to NAID? I just wanna see how popular its 
> gonna be with this section of the crowd. Or, at least tell me how 
> many people live as close as I do to Montreal. Im in Toronto, so 
> I'm thinking of going. I'm gonna have to get the rest of my demogroup 
> moving on our current thing though.

	I'd like to.  Yeah, we need to get to work if we're going to have 
anything to release by then too.  :/  I'm from down in Boston.

>     It seems an opportunity no to miss, seeing as its(at least to my 
> knowledge) one of the few democomps in North America. And its not 
> likely that Im gonna go to Finland anytime soon, so...

	Well, there were tentative plans for "CyberJam '95" in the 
summer, but I haven't heard anything about that for quite some itme.  It 
was goign to happen in Chicago.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 00:12 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <enrico@max.tiac.net>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1102] Re: GUS



On Sat, 21 Jan 1995, Juwan wrote:

> IS about $119 US good for a GUS?

	Yes.


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 00:32 EET
From: "Paul Kalupnieks" <KALUPNIE@fs2.ucc.on.ca>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1103] Re: NAID

> >     It seems an opportunity no to miss, seeing as its(at least to my 
> > knowledge) one of the few democomps in North America. And its not 
> > likely that Im gonna go to Finland anytime soon, so...
> 
>     Well, there were tentative plans for "CyberJam '95" in the 
> summer, but I haven't heard anything about that for quite some itme.  It 
> was goign to happen in Chicago.

    That one seems good too. During the summer I'm closer to Chicago, 
than I am during the winter from Montreal. The only problem is that 
school kinda gets in the way for me, at least during NAID. 





--
 ............................
 ......Paul..Kalupnieks......
 ...kalupnie@fs2.ucc.on.ca...
 ............................


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 01:30 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1104] Re: GUS 

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.950121150753.12261C@stargate.rs.itd.umich.edu> you wr
ite:

>IS about $119 US good for a GUS?
>
>                                   _   ___  _________
>                                  | |  \ / |  _   _  |
>                                __| |  | | | | | | | |
>                               |____|  /_\ |_| |_| |_|

For a new one with 1/4 MB installed?  Yes, that's about as good as it gets.
Mind you though you definitely want to upgrade to 1 MB which will cost you
another $30-50.

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 01:31 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1105] Re: [INERTIA- 

In message <9501210011.00A3300@t8000.cuc.ab.ca> you write:

>
>
> > my friend bought a SB-16 and then bought the waveblaster.  we 
> > compared it to the GUS and it paled by comparision (mostly 
> > because the sb/wave didn't have chorused instruments).  he 
> > disliked the waveblaster so much that he went and bought the roland        
> 
>> daughtercard to replace the waveblaster.  so now he has spent 
> > comparably as much money as if he bought an AWE-32. 
> >  
> > mind you, i don't know if he's satisfied with the new setup (but i 
> > believe he is, i hope) ... and we haven't as of yet compared it to 
> > the GUS or an AWE32.
>       
>I should have clarified that a SB-16 with any daughtercard _other_ than a
>waveblaster would be better than a AWE32.

How so?  You can plug the same daughterboard onto the AWE-32 AND have the
native EMU synth.

>Darryl T.
>darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 01:35 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1106] Re: [INERTIA- 

In message <9501210253.042HS00@t8000.cuc.ab.ca> you write:

>
>
> > Also having used 256x oversampling in Iplay and IDO in MOD4WIN, I'm 
> > kinda spoiled. In my book, unless you are running a GUS or an AWE-32 in 
> > their native modes, oversampling is a must.
> > 
> > --
> > ========================
> > Sam
> > eassa@earth.execpc.com 
> > ========================
>         
>I'd take it that for an 8bit SBPro oversampling is useless.. at least this is
>the case on my system. 

No, IDO also works with 8 bit output.  Its effects are quite unrelated to
whether you use 8 or 16 bit output.  Try spac-klf.mtm (you can find it at
ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/misc2/kosmic/songs/94) with Mod4Win.  Between 1:10 min
and 1:25 min is probably the most powerful demonstration I've ever found 
for what IDO really does.  And it works equally well with 8 bit output.

>When I turn it on, it makes the .MOD song playing sound
>a bit quiter and the higher frequencies are cut flat.

No, there's much more to IDO than cutting off high frequencies.  You can see
this in the same song I just told you.  While IDO eliminates all the hiss in
the background, the solo instruments still come though with their full
brilliance and dynamic.

>Darryl T.
>darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
 
Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 01:38 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1107] Re: [INERTIA- 

In message <9501210253.042IP00@t8000.cuc.ab.ca> you write:

>
>[snip]
>
> > >         Perhaps you are right but if I release an intro/demo, 
> > > wouldn't put SB support in it for my reason that SB sucks and GUS is 
> > > better. 
>
>[snip]
>
>
> > The problem with that logic is that the majority of people out there 
> > have a SB or compatible, not GUS. If you were writing a new word 
> > processor, do you really want to only support OS/2? If you did, you        
> 
>> wouldn't sell as many as you would if you supported Windows or DOS. Same    
>> thing for demos. 
> > You could write the most impressive demo ever made or will be made 
> > but the majority of your audience wouldn't be able to hear it. Getting 
> > back to the EGA/VGA example, if you write a demo for VGA only at a time 
> > where most people have EGA, then you wouldn't have much of a following. 
> > Yes VGA is better but you gotta appease the widest crossection of people   
> 
>> out there. This is the same old dilemma of backwards compatibility that 
> > has made life miserable for 32 bit operating systems or any radically 
> > new concept (eg, HDTV).
>
>One thing the demo coders and game coders should do to emphisize the GUS'
>abilities compared to the 'standard' SB cards is to limit the mixing
>frequencies during playback when using a SB card. The obvoius reason as to why
>the GUS was the only card supported in many of those newer demos is the fact
>that the coders overloaded the CPU with graphics and the GUS was the only
>option as if a SB card was used the graphics would suffer. Not with a GUS.
>
>OTOH, there is no reason why a SB card could'nt be used, but at a lower mixing
>frequency...

There is no reason why you couldn't produce the same high quality output
(or even better seeing that the GUS drops down with more than 14 channels)
with a DAC based sound card and software mixing, provided you have a 
powerful enough CPU.  Mind you, a 486DX2/66 is considered an entry level
machine nowadays.

>Darryl T.
>darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 09:03 EET
From: "Jesse Ozog (GE)" <ozog@suntan.eng.usf.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1108] Re: GUS



On Sat, 21 Jan 1995, Juwan wrote:

> IS about $119 US good for a GUS?
> 
>                                    _   ___  _________
>                                   | |  \ / |  _   _  |
>                                 __| |  | | | | | | | |
>                                |____|  /_\ |_| |_| |_|
> 
I have seen a GUS regular for $99.00 at a SoftWare ECt a few days ago.  I 
paid $145 for my first GUS about 2 years ago.

Jesse Ozog
I-NET: ozog@suntan.eng.usf.edu


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 10:59 EET
From: Juwan <vecna@UMich.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1109] Re: GUS

On Sun, 22 Jan 1995, Jesse Ozog (GE) wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jan 1995, Juwan wrote:
> 
> > IS about $119 US good for a GUS?
> > 
> I have seen a GUS regular for $99.00 at a SoftWare ECt a few days ago.  I 
> paid $145 for my first GUS about 2 years ago.

Thank you all for your responses.
                                   _   ___  _________
                                  | |  \ / |  _   _  |
                                __| |  | | | | | | | |
                               |____|  /_\ |_| |_| |_|


-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 17:20 EET
From: darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1110] [INERTIA-



 > IMHO, that is on of Gravis's strong points.  They update the software 
 > like crazy, (yes, even sent me a 6 disk update about 6 months after 
 > buying the card) so the drivers, and software keep getting better and 
 > better.  Not that this has anything to do with Iplay, but like any of 
 > these threads do. 
 > 
 > Jesse Ozog                                                         

Hmm, ask anyone who uses OS/2 about Gravis' software support and you'll get a
different answer...

Darryl T.
darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca




-----------------

Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 17:21 EET
From: darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1111] [INERTIA-



 > You've got it backwards.  Even though I'm hearing from an actual OS/2 
 > user that it doesn't run DOS faster than DOS.                    

Of course it does'nt.. no _true_ multitasking operating system would be able to
do that. Why???

a. DOS is made to run 1 program at a time while..

b. OS/2 has 'overhead' in it's multitasking routines to manage more than one
   program at a time

It is a simple decision in upgrading to OS/2; if you run DOS and are wishing
you could run more than 1 program at a time, or you're using Windows and 
wishing that the multitasking was smoother and are despising the crashes, then
OS/2 is the logical step upwards.

Darryl T.
darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca



-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 01:52 EET
From: darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1114] [INERTIA-



 > >I should have clarified that a SB-16 with any daughtercard _other_ 
 > >than a waveblaster would be better than a AWE32.
 > 
 > How so?  You can plug the same daughterboard onto the AWE-32 AND 
 > have the native EMU synth.
 > 
 > Jensi
            
Isn't that redundant though? I thought the AWE32's main benefit was it's
wavetable systhesis... adding a daughtercard basically replaces the onboard
wavetable with GM wavetable.. no?

Maybe you could ad a daughtercard to a AWE32 and then have a game which uses
digital sound, GM midi music _and_ AWE32 wavetable at the same time!!! ;-)

Darryl T.
darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca



-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 01:48 EET
From: "Jesse Ozog (GE)" <ozog@suntan.eng.usf.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1112] Re: [INERTIA-



On Sun, 22 Jan 1995 darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca wrote:

> 
> Hmm, ask anyone who uses OS/2 about Gravis' software support and you'll get a
> different answer...
> 
> Darryl T.
> darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
> 
> 
I have recently seen the OS/2 drivers from Gravis, in alpha stage, but 
they are indeed working on improving these drivers.  

Jesse Ozog
I-NET: ozog@suntan.eng.usf.edu


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 01:50 EET
From: darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1113] [INERTIA-


[...]

 > >OTOH, there is no reason why a SB card could'nt be used, but at a lower    
> >mixing frequency...
 > 
 > There is no reason why you couldn't produce the same high quality output
 > (or even better seeing that the GUS drops down with more than 14 channels)
 > with a DAC based sound card and software mixing, provided you have a 

OK.

 > powerful enough CPU.  Mind you, a 486DX2/66 is considered an entry level
 > machine nowadays.

Yer cruel! (but seeing as how I've owned this dx2-66 for roughly 2 years...)

 > 
 > Jensi

Darryl T.
darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:00 EET
From: darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1115] [INERTIA-



 > >I'd take it that for an 8bit SBPro oversampling is useless.. at 
 > >least this is the case on my system. 
 > 
 > No, IDO also works with 8 bit output.  Its effects are quite unrelated to
 > whether you use 8 or 16 bit output.  Try spac-klf.mtm (you can find it at

Got it, I'll have to re-install Mod4win to try this... (unless Interia Player's
256x oversampling produces the same output..

 > ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/misc2/kosmic/songs/94) with Mod4Win.  Between 1:10    
> min and 1:25 min is probably the most powerful demonstration I've ever 
 > found for what IDO really does.  And it works equally well with 8 bit 
 > output.

It sounds like you're saying the module length actually changes when
oversampling is used; without the o-sampling does the .MOD actually get cut
short??

 > 
 > >When I turn it on, it makes the .MOD song playing sound
 > >a bit quiter and the higher frequencies are cut flat.
 > 
 > No, there's much more to IDO than cutting off high frequencies.  You 
 > can see this in the same song I just told you.  While IDO eliminates all    
> the hiss in the background, the solo instruments still come though with     
> their full brilliance and dynamic.

Brilliance and dynamic... sounds pretty hardcore for my SBPro! ;->

Darryl T.
darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:09 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <eassa@earth.execpc.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1116] Re: [INERTIA-



On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca wrote:

> 
> 
>  > >I should have clarified that a SB-16 with any daughtercard _other_ 
>  > >than a waveblaster would be better than a AWE32.
>  > 
>  > How so?  You can plug the same daughterboard onto the AWE-32 AND 
>  > have the native EMU synth.
>  > 
>  > Jensi
>             
> Isn't that redundant though? I thought the AWE32's main benefit was it's
> wavetable systhesis... adding a daughtercard basically replaces the onboard
> wavetable with GM wavetable.. no?
> 
> Maybe you could ad a daughtercard to a AWE32 and then have a game which uses
> digital sound, GM midi music _and_ AWE32 wavetable at the same time!!! ;-)
> 
I think the main advantage of an AWE-32 + DB is the capability to use 
your own patches and the built-in echo and chorus. More importantly (for 
me, anyway) is hopefully we will have mod player(s) that will use the 
AWE-32's DSP to play mods. In that case we will have essentially a "super 
GUS" that does everything you could ever want to do.
--
========================
Sam
eassa@earth.execpc.com 
========================


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:21 EET
From: Shawn Poulson <spoulson@cygnus.rsabbs.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1117] Re: Gravis Card[s] 

On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, Shawn Poulson wrote:
> > 	What 3 cards might these be?  
> 
> A Turtle Beach Multisound Classic, a Roland RAP-10 and a Sound Blaster-16.

	Whoa.. you must be a musician I can tell?

-Mr. Data / Continuum


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:28 EET
From: Shawn Poulson <spoulson@cygnus.rsabbs.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1118] Re: 

On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> >	PMode and PMode/w SHOULD be cool to use anywhere you want.  After 
> >all, it's very difficult to make routines to handle everything from raw 
> >operation, VCPI, XMS, to DPMI that's already installed.  And if DPMI is 
> >already in, then PMode will use its own routines.
> >	Not just that but think what would happen if everyone had their
> >own pmode header?  The world would be quite chaotic, it's not an easy
> >thing to do and also requires some research, unlike replay routines. 
> 
> Yeah right, replay routines don't require any research.  That's why 
> there's so much junk out there.

	I don't know if that's sarcastic or not but I wasn't referring to 
any music replay routines, only my opinion that PMode code should be 
using a common extender that's reliable... PMode and PMode/w

	Replay routines are simple enough to write your own.

-Mr. Data / Continuum


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:29 EET
From: Shawn Poulson <spoulson@cygnus.rsabbs.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1119] Re: Why do coders code?

On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, Cuthalion / Sliced Bread wrote:

> 	1)  Because it's nice to be told you're the best.
> 	2)  Because it's nice to get money and prizes.
> 	3)  Because it's fun.
> 	4)  Oftimes they have very limited social lives otherwise. :)
                             
	I can differ with some of those but it's also good for:

	5)  Making your debut
	6)  Releasing your demo/intro
	7)  Meeting the people you've always heard about

	I am putting stuff out for NAID but I won't be able to go to the 
compo since I'll be in Germany and Austria on school European trip. :( :(

-Mr. Data / Continuum


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:37 EET
From: Shawn Poulson <spoulson@cygnus.rsabbs.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1121] Re: [INERTIA-

On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca wrote:

>  > powerful enough CPU.  Mind you, a 486DX2/66 is considered an entry level
>  > machine nowadays.
> 
> Yer cruel! (but seeing as how I've owned this dx2-66 for roughly 2 years...)

	I'm starting to have the same mentality.  Only not that high up, 
a 386/40 would be the minimum computer to own nowadays I think.. anything 
below is outdated... After all, who's seen a 386/33, 386sx/16 on sale new 
anywhere?

-Mr. Data / Continuum


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:44 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1122] Re: [INERTIA- 

In message <9501221520.0LJUE00@t8000.cuc.ab.ca> you write:

> > >I should have clarified that a SB-16 with any daughtercard _other_ 
> > >than a waveblaster would be better than a AWE32.
> > 
> > How so?  You can plug the same daughterboard onto the AWE-32 AND 
> > have the native EMU synth.
> > 
> > Jensi
>            
>Isn't that redundant though? I thought the AWE32's main benefit was it's
>wavetable systhesis... adding a daughtercard basically replaces the onboard
>wavetable with GM wavetable.. no?

It doesn't replace it, more like adding a second MIDI synth engine.

>Maybe you could ad a daughtercard to a AWE32 and then have a game which uses
>digital sound, GM midi music _and_ AWE32 wavetable at the same time!!! ;-)

I guess that's the main reason why they designed it this way, so users of
DOS games can get hassle free MPU-401 in hardware.  The onboard EMU synth
probably kicks the shit out of some of those daughterboards, but it doesn't
have h/w MPU-401 and requires hassleful drivers under DOS, much like the 
GUS.  Overall it appears that the AWE-32 suffers quite a lot from glue
logic and design, this is thanks to our heritage from the ole DOS days.

>Darryl T.
>darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:36 EET
From: Shawn Poulson <spoulson@cygnus.rsabbs.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1120] Re: NAID

On Sat, 21 Jan 1995, Paul Kalupnieks wrote:

>     So who here's going to NAID? I just wanna see how popular its 
> gonna be with this section of the crowd. Or, at least tell me how 
> many people live as close as I do to Montreal. Im in Toronto, so 
> I'm thinking of going. I'm gonna have to get the rest of my demogroup 
> moving on our current thing though.

	I'm not going but possibly 2 other coder members of my group may 
be going.  Our group is Continuum.  We'll release a debut 100k intro 
there one way or another.  I cannot release any more information than 
that, or I will be shot and my knees broken...

>     It seems an opportunity not to miss, seeing as its(at least to my 
> knowledge) one of the few democomps in North America. And its not 
> likely that Im gonna go to Finland anytime soon, so...

	If I had a choice, I'd clear my schedule for NAID but it has 
already been filled last October before NAID was a twinkle in the 
organizer's eye.

-Mr. Data / Continuum


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 03:01 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1124] Re: [INERTIA- 

In message <Pine.3.89.9501221814.A24138-0100000@earth> you write:

>On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>>  > >I should have clarified that a SB-16 with any daughtercard _other_ 
>>  > >than a waveblaster would be better than a AWE32.
>>  > 
>>  > How so?  You can plug the same daughterboard onto the AWE-32 AND 
>>  > have the native EMU synth.
>>  > 
>>  > Jensi
>>             
>> Isn't that redundant though? I thought the AWE32's main benefit was it's
>> wavetable systhesis... adding a daughtercard basically replaces the onboard
>> wavetable with GM wavetable.. no?
>> 
>> Maybe you could ad a daughtercard to a AWE32 and then have a game which uses
>> digital sound, GM midi music _and_ AWE32 wavetable at the same time!!! ;-)
>> 
>I think the main advantage of an AWE-32 + DB is the capability to use 
>your own patches and the built-in echo and chorus. 

You don't need the DB for that.  Reverb and chorus are built in functions of
the EMU chip and to use your own patches all you need to do is plug in some
RAM.  The DB is mainly for h/w MPU-401 compatibility, so you don't need any
drivers when playing DOS games.

>More importantly (for 
>me, anyway) is hopefully we will have mod player(s) that will use the 
>AWE-32's DSP to play mods. 

The DSP is pretty useless for playing MOD's.  For all I know it only helps
with h/w (de-)compression and text to speech synthesis and some surround
effects.  It's the EMU chip that's interesting for module playback as you
can upload the samples to onboard RAM and then let the synth chip do the
processing and mixing, much like the GUS's GF1 does.

>In that case we will have essentially a "super 
>GUS" that does everything you could ever want to do.

I don't know about "ever want to do" but it should be sufficient for a while,
it can do everything the GUS can and more, the big drawback is that CL doesn't
seem to be interested in getting any s/w developed for this board, if they
were they would offer a free SDK, much like AG.

>--
>========================
>Sam
>eassa@earth.execpc.com 
>========================

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 02:55 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1123] Re: [INERTIA- 

In message <9501221524.0LN6200@t8000.cuc.ab.ca> you write:

> > >I'd take it that for an 8bit SBPro oversampling is useless.. at 
> > >least this is the case on my system. 
> > 
> > No, IDO also works with 8 bit output.  Its effects are quite unrelated to
> > whether you use 8 or 16 bit output.  Try spac-klf.mtm (you can find it at
>
>Got it, I'll have to re-install Mod4win to try this... (unless Interia Player'
>s
>256x oversampling produces the same output..

Pretty much the same, yes.  At least the result sounds about the same.

> > ftp://ftp.luth.se/pub/misc2/kosmic/songs/94) with Mod4Win.  Between 1:10   
> 
>> min and 1:25 min is probably the most powerful demonstration I've ever 
> > found for what IDO really does.  And it works equally well with 8 bit 
> > output.
>
>It sounds like you're saying the module length actually changes when
>oversampling is used; without the o-sampling does the .MOD actually get cut
>short??

No no, I was just trying to tell you which part of the music (between 1:10 
min and 1:25 min) exhibits the effects of IDO most clearly.  The length of 
the song is not influenced by that.
 
> > >When I turn it on, it makes the .MOD song playing sound
> > >a bit quiter and the higher frequencies are cut flat.
> > 
> > No, there's much more to IDO than cutting off high frequencies.  You 
> > can see this in the same song I just told you.  While IDO eliminates all   
> 
>> the hiss in the background, the solo instruments still come though with     
>> their full brilliance and dynamic.
>
>Brilliance and dynamic... sounds pretty hardcore for my SBPro! ;->

Hehe, get ya ;-)  But you should be able to hear what I mean nonetheless.

>Darryl T.
>darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca

Jensi


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 05:27 EET
From: "Cyber Edge / Syber Dreams" <KALUPNIE@fs2.ucc.on.ca>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1125] 386-486

> On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca wrote:
> 
> >  > powerful enough CPU.  Mind you, a 486DX2/66 is considered an entry level
> >  > machine nowadays.
> > 
> > Yer cruel! (but seeing as how I've owned this dx2-66 for roughly 2 years...)
> 
>     I'm starting to have the same mentality.  Only not that high up, 
> a 386/40 would be the minimum computer to own nowadays I think.. anything 
> below is outdated... After all, who's seen a 386/33, 386sx/16 on sale new 
> anywhere?
> 
> -Mr. Data / Continuum
> 
    Personnaly, I haven't even seen _any_ 386's for sale in awhile. I 
bought my 486/33 a year and a half ago, and I think it's out of date.

now. 

--
 ............................
 ......Paul..Kalupnieks......
 ...kalupnie@fs2.ucc.on.ca...
 ............................


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 06:04 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <enrico@max.tiac.net>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1128] Re: [INERTIA- 



On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> >In that case we will have essentially a "super 
> >GUS" that does everything you could ever want to do.
> 
> I don't know about "ever want to do" but it should be sufficient for a while,
> it can do everything the GUS can and more, the big drawback is that CL doesn't
> seem to be interested in getting any s/w developed for this board, if they
> were they would offer a free SDK, much like AG.

	Gravis did more than release the SDK for free.  They supplied 
some coders with free GUS's, even!


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 06:03 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <enrico@max.tiac.net>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1127] Re: Why do coders code?



On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Shawn Poulson wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, Cuthalion / Sliced Bread wrote:
> 
> > 	1)  Because it's nice to be told you're the best.
> > 	2)  Because it's nice to get money and prizes.
> > 	3)  Because it's fun.
> > 	4)  Oftimes they have very limited social lives otherwise. :)
>                              
> 	I can differ with some of those but it's also good for:
> 
> 	5)  Making your debut
> 	6)  Releasing your demo/intro
> 	7)  Meeting the people you've always heard about
> 
> 	I am putting stuff out for NAID but I won't be able to go to the 
> compo since I'll be in Germany and Austria on school European trip. :( :(
> 

	You're missing a democompo becaus you're going to be in Europe?!  
How disgustingly ironic.  You get my heartfelt sympathy.


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 05:57 EET
From: Cuthalion / Sliced Bread <enrico@max.tiac.net>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1126] Re: [INERTIA-



On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca wrote:

> 
> 
>  > >I should have clarified that a SB-16 with any daughtercard _other_ 
>  > >than a waveblaster would be better than a AWE32.
>  > 
>  > How so?  You can plug the same daughterboard onto the AWE-32 AND 
>  > have the native EMU synth.
>  > 
>  > Jensi
>             
> Isn't that redundant though? I thought the AWE32's main benefit was it's
> wavetable systhesis... adding a daughtercard basically replaces the onboard
> wavetable with GM wavetable.. no?
> 
> Maybe you could ad a daughtercard to a AWE32 and then have a game which uses
> digital sound, GM midi music _and_ AWE32 wavetable at the same time!!! ;-)
> 
	I see two major problesm with this, in addition to the obvious 
one which that it's just plain absurd.  

1)  Nobody's going to write any software to do it because of the afore 
mentioned aspect of the idea.
2)  Nobody's going to compose two pieces of music, both of which are 
meant to be played simultaneously.  Well, nobody normal.  So, actually, 
this may not be a problem.  :/


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 06:33 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <eassa@earth.execpc.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1129] Re: Gravis Card[s] 



On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Shawn Poulson wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, Hussam Eassa wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, Shawn Poulson wrote:
> > > 	What 3 cards might these be?  
> > 
> > A Turtle Beach Multisound Classic, a Roland RAP-10 and a Sound Blaster-16.
> 
> 	Whoa.. you must be a musician I can tell?

Nope. Just a computer/music nut :-)

--
========================
Sam
eassa@earth.execpc.com 
========================


> 
> -Mr. Data / Continuum
> 
> 


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 06:58 EET
From: Shawn Poulson <spoulson@cygnus.rsabbs.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1131] Re: Why do coders code?

On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Cuthalion / Sliced Bread wrote:

> 	You're missing a democompo becaus you're going to be in Europe?!  
> How disgustingly ironic.  You get my heartfelt sympathy.

	True, I'm really dissappointed but reservations have already been 
made many months in advance... canceling now would leave me $400 short in 
the refund... :( :(  I really would rather go to a 2 day democompo than a 
European trip.  
	All I can think of is trying to get contacts to meet some german 
demo group there :)  Sounds kind of unlikely.

-Mr. Data / Continuum


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 06:47 EET
From: Hussam Eassa <eassa@earth.execpc.com>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1130] Re: [INERTIA- 



On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Jens Puchert wrote:

> In message <Pine.3.89.9501221814.A24138-0100000@earth> you write:
> 
> >On Mon, 23 Jan 1995 darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca wrote:
> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >>  > >I should have clarified that a SB-16 with any daughtercard _other_ 
> >>  > >than a waveblaster would be better than a AWE32.
> >>  > 
> >>  > How so?  You can plug the same daughterboard onto the AWE-32 AND 
> >>  > have the native EMU synth.
> >>  > 
> >>  > Jensi
> >>             
> >> Isn't that redundant though? I thought the AWE32's main benefit was it's
> >> wavetable systhesis... adding a daughtercard basically replaces the onboard
> >> wavetable with GM wavetable.. no?
> >> 
> >> Maybe you could ad a daughtercard to a AWE32 and then have a game which uses
> >> digital sound, GM midi music _and_ AWE32 wavetable at the same time!!! ;-)
> >> 
> >I think the main advantage of an AWE-32 + DB is the capability to use 
> >your own patches and the built-in echo and chorus. 
> 
> You don't need the DB for that.  Reverb and chorus are built in functions of
> the EMU chip and to use your own patches all you need to do is plug in some
> RAM.  The DB is mainly for h/w MPU-401 compatibility, so you don't need any
> drivers when playing DOS games.
> 

I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I was refering to the advantages 
of an AWE-32 + DB vs. SB-16 + DB. You are right of course.

> >More importantly (for 
> >me, anyway) is hopefully we will have mod player(s) that will use the 
> >AWE-32's DSP to play mods. 
> 
> The DSP is pretty useless for playing MOD's.  For all I know it only helps
> with h/w (de-)compression and text to speech synthesis and some surround
> effects.  It's the EMU chip that's interesting for module playback as you
> can upload the samples to onboard RAM and then let the synth chip do the
> processing and mixing, much like the GUS's GF1 does.

Well, here I may have not expressed myself clearly, again. AFAIK the EMU 
chip is a DSP (Digital Signal Processor). You probably thought that I meant 
the ASP chip. Again, you are correct.

> 
> >In that case we will have essentially a "super 
> >GUS" that does everything you could ever want to do.
> 
> I don't know about "ever want to do" but it should be sufficient for a while,
> it can do everything the GUS can and more, the big drawback is that CL doesn't
> seem to be interested in getting any s/w developed for this board, if they
> were they would offer a free SDK, much like AG.
> 

I'm guessing here but I think the big hush hush at CL is because they 
want a little breathing room before the cloners get to work. I think that 
once they have gotten their R&D costs out of it, they will loosen their 
grip a bit.

--
========================
Sam
eassa@earth.execpc.com 
========================


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 12:20 EET
From: darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1132] [INERTIA-


[...]

 > >Isn't that redundant though? I thought the AWE32's main benefit was it's
 > >wavetable systhesis... adding a daughtercard basically replaces the 
 > >onboard wavetable with GM wavetable.. no?

[...]

 > I guess that's the main reason why they designed it this way, so users of
 > DOS games can get hassle free MPU-401 in hardware.  The onboard EMU synth
 > probably kicks the shit out of some of those daughterboards, but it doesn't
 > have h/w MPU-401 and requires hassleful drivers under DOS, much like the 
 > GUS.  Overall it appears that the AWE-32 suffers quite a lot from glue
 > logic and design, this is thanks to our heritage from the ole DOS 
 > days.

Logically the next generation of OS' will eliminate these hassles with 32bit
drivers... But, we mus'nt forget why the majority of soundcards are bought
these days - GAMES! (no.. actually it's for the business user who wants to
delete his HD by voice!!! ;-> )

I predict that seeing as how the gaming industry has avoided the most popular
32bit OS these days, that we won't be playing any native OS/2 (or WinNT or
Win'9x) games for quite some time yet. Therefore, if I was to purchase a new
soundcard right now, I'd want to be sure of its functionality with my DOS
gaming software _today_.

BTW, you seem to know quite a bit about soundcards; do you know why C-Labs
can't seem to ensure backwards compatiblity with the SBPro standard?
IMHO, they really screwed up on the SB-16 & AWE-32 and this is the main reason
I bought a SBPro... plus price. TTYL

Darryl T.
darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca
.


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 13:48 EET
From: "Dingo Ruzicka" <XRUZJ05@st.vse.cz>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1135] Re: Re[3]: Argh.  New motherboard, A

Hi !

> No way. At least I (and my friends around here) couldn't
> find any. Maybe Iplay 1.21 ??

I would prefere IP 1.3 :^I


Bye! Dingo.         internet: xruzj05@vse.cz
                    fidonet : 2:420/100.226


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 13:42 EET
From: "Dingo Ruzicka" <XRUZJ05@st.vse.cz>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1134] Re: Argh.  New motherboard, new prob

Hi !

> >I had the same problem. Once upon a time my GUS burned up, since this time
> >I'm having no problems :-(
> 
>         Burned?  Like, fire?  :)

yes :( with a bad smell


Bye! Dingo.         internet: xruzj05@vse.cz
                    fidonet : 2:420/100.226


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 15:35 EET
From: Paul Bijlsma <bijls401@tem.nhl.nl>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1138] Re: Help me

And still you find time to answer my request, thank you. PB


On Fri, 20 Jan 95 18:24 EET demegi50@crazy.fe.up.pt wrote:

> From:demegi50@crazy.fe.up.pt> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 18:24 EET
> Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1074] Re: Help me 
> To: Multiple recipients of list <inertia-talk@oliver.sun.ac.za>
> 
> >Hi I've just subscribed to this list, could someone please send me a message 
so 
> >I can see if my new folder works properly.
> >
> >Thanks, PB
> 
> Soon, there will be tha day when you ask... no, beg, to people stop sending 
> their mesages. I subscribe 4 lists, i read my mail every day and i still got 184 
> mesages to read. But, that's OK. Keep sending all you got.
> 
> Telmo Cruz
> <demegi50@crazy.fe.up.pt>




-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 15:20 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <VIKTOR@evt.bme.hu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1136] Asus m'board

>  > > Check out the motherboard, if you have an Intel Aries chipset 
>  > > like in ASUS PVI, it's wrong. 
>  > > The other Intel chipsets like SaturnII in ASUS SP3G don't have 
>  > this
>  > > error.
>  > > There is no error with your GUS or GUSMAX !!!
>  > 
>  > thnx, is it there any possibility to make IPLAY going on
>  > our mainboards ?
>  > 
>  > Bye! Dingo.         internet: xruzj05@vse.cz
>  >                     fidonet : 2:420/100.226
> 
> I don't mean to preach but if I was you, I'd be screaming bloody murder at the
> dealer who sold me a un-compatible motherboard!
> 
> Darryl T.
> darryl.teichroeb@t8000.cuc.ab.ca

And what should I expect? They can give me another one, same board, same
error... Shall I say that Iplay doens't work? They will laugh, but won't
buy it back! If you can define the error a bit professionally I can give
a try but till then... I can't use gfx screens of Iplay.

Viktor


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 15:29 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <VIKTOR@evt.bme.hu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1137] Re: GUS

> Date sent:      Sat, 21 Jan 95 22:15 EET
> Send reply to:  inertia-talk@oliver.sun.ac.za
> From:           Juwan <vecna@UMich.edu>
> To:             Multiple recipients of list <inertia-talk@oliver.sun.ac.za>
> Subject:        [INERTIA-TALK:1099] GUS

> IS about $119 US good for a GUS?
> 
>                                    _   ___  _________
>                                   | |  \ / |  _   _  |
>                                 __| |  | | | | | | | |
>                                |____|  /_\ |_| |_| |_|

It depends on which version of a GUS and the amount of RAM on it.
for a GUS 3.73 with 256K it's ok.

Viktor

                 /
 \             / /    "Life is short - drive fast !!"
  \\\' ,      / //               
   \\\//,   _/ //,
+ + \_-//' /  //<, + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+     \ ///  <//`                                                  +
+      /  >>  \\\`__/_           Viktor F.                         +
+     /,)-^>> _\` \\\            ---------                         +
+     (/   \\ //\\               viktor@evt.bme.hu                 +
+         // _//\\\\             Technical University of Budapest  +
+========((`=((====================================================+
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Version: 2.3

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=KeXT
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-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 13:04 EET
From: niels <beek402@tem.nhl.nl>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1133] 

What is the newest inertia-player version??
And how can I get MOD4Win ??



-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 17:02 EET
From: Paul Bijlsma <bijls401@tem.nhl.nl>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1139] Version?

What is the newest Iplay version?
Mine is 1.2, but it doesn't work very well (no offence)



-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 19:19 EET
From: "F. Viktor" <VIKTOR@evt.bme.hu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1140] Re: Version?

> Date sent:      Mon, 23 Jan 95 17:03 EET
> Send reply to:  inertia-talk@oliver.sun.ac.za
> From:           Paul Bijlsma <bijls401@tem.NHL.NL>
> To:             Multiple recipients of list <inertia-talk@oliver.sun.ac.za>
> Subject:        [INERTIA-TALK:1139] Version?

> What is the newest Iplay version?
> Mine is 1.2, but it doesn't work very well (no offence)

Tell us more detail about your problems please!

Viktor
 
 
 
                 /
 \             / /    "Life is short - drive fast !!"
  \\\' ,      / //               
   \\\//,   _/ //,
+ + \_-//' /  //<, + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+     \ ///  <//`                                                  +
+      /  >>  \\\`__/_           Viktor F.                         +
+     /,)-^>> _\` \\\            ---------                         +
+     (/   \\ //\\               viktor@evt.bme.hu                 +
+         // _//\\\\             Technical University of Budapest  +
+========((`=((====================================================+
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.3

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dG9yQGV2dC5ibWUuaHU+
=KeXT
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 19:46 EET
From: Steve Enns <ennss@eris.nhrc.sk.doe.ca>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1141] .MTM to .WAV to make CD-Audio disc


I though I'd repost this inquiry, as I don't think it got onto the list:

I've been trying out my CD Recorder recently, and am going to make a audio
CD soon.  I would like to put some of my favourite .MTM/.S3M etc. music onto
this CD.  Anyone seen a player which will write a nice  44.1kHz 16bit .WAV
(or .AU or whatever) file instead of just playing to the line-out?   I *could*
just record my GUS MAX playing the music, but I would like to keep the process
completely digital if possible, to get the highest quality...  I've seen
many players/trackers, and none of them write a "sample" (.WAV type) format.
(basically because there has never really been a reason to do that...)

Am I missing something?  Any help much appreciated.  IPLAY guys need any 
suggestions for IPLAY 2.0?  ;-)


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 21:59 EET
From: hrusvska@saris.po.upjs.sk (Ing. Darina Hrusovska)
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1142] Re: 

> 
> What is the newest inertia-player version??
> And how can I get MOD4Win ??
> 
> 
>you must send a registration form  and 30 bucks to
JSInc.
Jens Puchert
1037 Medison St
Syracuse NY 13210-2015 


-----------------

Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 23:26 EET
From: "Jens Puchert" <jpuchert@mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: [INERTIA-TALK:1143] Re: 

In message <ECS9501230915A@mailserv.tem.nhl.nl> you write:

>What is the newest inertia-player version??

Inertia Player v. 1.2 (released 08/08/94)
ftp://ftp.eng.ufl.edu/demos/music/programs/players/iplay12.arj

>And how can I get MOD4Win ??

Mod4Win v. 2.12 (released 12/11/94)
ftp://ftp.eng.ufl.edu/demos/music/programs/players/m4w212sx.zip

Hope this helps...

Jensi


-----------------

